Wine is, first and foremost, an agricultural product. Extreme climates affect it, and climate change, both natural and man-made, is only accelerating. The issue, of course, is not just elevated temperatures. Smoke taint, droughts, frost, flooding, hailstorms and excessive rainfall all impact vineyards. The collective effect of these changes on wine production is becoming more obvious over time. This week, I sat down with Steve Peck to discuss. Peck is the VP of winemaking at J. Lohr Vineyards and Wines in Paso Robles, California, for which he oversees the full portfolio of white and red wines. Listen as Peck explains how he determines when it’s time to harvest; the intricacies of the harvest process; how extreme weather is impacting J. Lohr’s crop this year; if climate change will ultimately impact his winemaking style; and what J. Lohr is doing to mitigate climate change in the vineyards. Episode Transcript Transcripts are generated using a combination of speech recognition software and human transcribers, and may contain errors. Please check the corresponding audio before quoting. Speakers: Steve Peck, Jacy Topps Jacy Topps 00:08 Hello, and welcome to the Wine Enthusiast podcast. You're serving of drinks culture, and the people who drive it. I'm Jacy Topps. This week we're talking about climate change and its impact on harvest. Wine is first and foremost an agricultural product. So extreme climates will undoubtedly alter wine production. Over the years we've seen record temperatures snowstorms in Napa and Sonoma, wildfires in North America, and floods in Australia in Germany. Climate change, both natural and manmade, is very much real. And its impact on wine production is becoming more and more obvious. So just how is it affecting wine? I sat down with Steve Peck to discuss. Steve is the VP of winemaking at J. Lohr Vineyards and wines in Paso Robles, California, where he oversees the full portfolio of J. Lohr wines. So, listen on a Steve explains how he determines when it's time to harvest the harvest process; just how extreme weather is impacting their crop this year; if climate change will ultimately impact their winemaking style, and what J. Lohr is doing to mitigate climate change in the vineyards. Jacy Topps 01:32 Every glass of wine tells a story. These stories reveal a hidden histories, flavors and passions, and sometimes they unravel our darkest desires. And Wine Enthusiast newest podcast. Vinfamous Journalist Ashley Smith dissects the underbelly of the wine world. We hear from the people who know what it means when the products of love and care become the source of greed, arson, and even murder. Each episode takes listeners into the mysterious and historic world of winemaking and the crimes that have since become Vinfamous. This podcast pairs well with wine lovers, history nerds and crime junkies alike. So, grab a glass of your favorite wine and follow the podcast to join us as we delve into the twists and turns behind the all time most shocking wind crimes. Follow Vinfamous on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you listen and be sure to follow the show, so you never miss a scandal. New episodes drop every other Wednesday. Jacy Topps 02:43 Hi, I'm Jacy Topps. Today we're discussing harvest and climate change. My guest is Steve Peck. Steve is the vice president of winemaking at J Lohr Vineyards and wine in Paso Robles. Welcome Steve. I'm so glad you can join us today. Steve Peck 02:59 Thank you, Jacy. I sure appreciate the opportunity to spend some time with you. Jacy Topps 03:03 So it's harvest season started all over the northern hemisphere and the wine world is super excited and busy. Jacy Topps 03:11 For our listeners who aren't quite familiar with the process, can you quickly take us through the steps of harvest like what goes into it? And the decisions that need to be made because it's such a really vital component of winemaking? Steve Peck 03:25 Yeah, so J Lohr we farm in three regions in California original region is in the Monterey area. Today it's called the royal Seiko of Monterey, it is kind of like Rodeo Drive. You know, really one of the premium areas of Monterey, very ideal climate for Chardonnay Pinot Noir, we have a 30-acre vineyard up in St. Alena and Napa Valley and then actually 3000 acres in Paso Robles dedicated primarily to Cabernet Sauvignon. Steve Peck 04:00 So we have our own team of vineyard managers and viticulturalist that have been working throughout the year, you know, from pruning, to, you know, irrigation protocols, shoot thinning, cluster thinning. And as we approach harvest the drive is really to collect samples, get our winemakers you know, including myself out into the fields, tasting and flavoring for the optimal level of maturity before we make our picking decisions. So, we have just today received our first sample of red grapes for our laboratory here. It is going to be a late season and 2023 is hot as the climates been throughout the interior of the United States with record breaking temperatures and every state really, you know, Texas and Colorado come to mind. What that does is actually creates this kind of giant sucking sound from the Pacific Ocean and the jet stream brings in that Steve Peck 04:59 Much more cold air off of the ocean. So, the coastal strip from Santa Barbara to Paso Robles, Monterey, Sonoma Napa. It's actually resulted in the coolest growing season we've had since 1999. So, the entire state expects to have a later than normal harvest again, because of that colder air being pulled in from the ocean. Okay, so let's, let's back up for a second when you said you're picking grapes to that maturity, how does how do winemakers? How do you determine that perfect ripeness? Right, so again, there is a level of analysis that we're kind of looking for a certain sweetness level or sugar level in the grapes, that kind of will result in how much alcohol is in the wine. But, you know, a brand like J. Lohr would go to the next level, which is really flavor maturity. And we want to have enough hang time on the vine to develop the appropriate flavor. So classic one would be our flute crossing, solving a walk, where if we get the sugar, just where it ought to be, if the fruit still kind of tastes grassy and green, it'll have some green pepper character to it. But it will not have developed some of the files, which is kind of the passion fruit aromas that we need to let the fruit have additional hangtime on the vine to achieve. So that's a classic one where I and Christian Barnhouse or winemaker for white wines were really on patrol for the development of those passion fruit aromas in Sauvignon Blanc for Chardonnay, we're looking for going from sort of green apple to maybe more of a peach, or nectarine kind of flavor profile. And red grapes, our team and myself included we've sort of developed a really interesting take, which is we're tasting grapes from raisin, which is around August 1, where the grapes turn from green to red, we're starting to taste at that point for any negative flavors, which would include that green bell pepper aroma. And so if if, if we get a nice, fruity flavor profile on August 1, we know we're set for the season. If we get that green bell pepper flavor, we actually starve the vines from any irrigation. And we'll put them through a drying cycle to try to wring out some of that green bell pepper flavor. But when it comes down to the final day of harvest for red grapes, the techniques are pretty interesting, we will pop a few grapes in our mouth, chew it up, and spit it out. And if the juice comes out of my mouth, kind of green or pink, it means it's not ready. If the juice that comes that you spit out is nice and dark red, it means that the color in those skins is ready to roll. And we're going to have a really easy time in the fermenter we're going to be able to you know that that those grapes are gonna surrender the color into the juice very easily. And that we're not going to have to overwork the wine which to get the color and which would drive our flavor profile to a more of a tannic over extracted flavor profile. Jacy Topps 08:21 I like how you describe that just you know like; you guys have your wine tasting in the vineyards and you put it in and you spit it out. Just how wine reviewers do it the same way? Steve Peck 08:33 Yeah, yeah, it's not a it's not a, you know, a pretty process. You know, part of that process might be looking for the development of seed color. So if the seeds are still kind of white and pithy, they tend to impart a bitter flavor profile. If they have this nice, brown kind of toasty look to them. They're going to render wines with really soft and, and approachable tannins. Jacy Topps 09:04 Well, I'm glad you brought up verasion because you said it's typically the beginning of August with climate change. Did that impact a little bit or did it not? Is it typically the first week of August? Steve Peck 09:18 Right? So use the term climate change, and that is the correct term. You know, you know, 10 years ago, we would have been talking about global warming, warming talk about you know, that you know that the hot interior United States is kind of resulted in a colder coastal strip along California. And so yeah, it can vary, maybe, you know, plus or minus 10 days, if we've had a dry winter, the vines tend to come out of dormancy a little earlier that budbreak so about the earliest is St. Patty's Day and about the latest is a little after April Fool's. So, you tend to hedge. You know more towards that, you know, mid-March budbreak, on a, on a dry winter. And again, and again, maybe into the first week of April on a wetter winter, like we had in 2023. So, there is kind of a, you know, that the starting point of the whole entire growing season, and that'll play through to the bloom period, that happens typically in May, most people don't really think of grape vines as a flowering plant. But indeed, it is it has these teeny tiny little flowers. And just like a cherry blossom, ideally, every blossom will turn into a piece of fruit into a grape, or into a cherry. And so, so that process tends to be plus or minus May 15. And then again, that braise on which is where we go from these hard, sour, green berries to you know, soft, colored, and sweet berries begin, you know, anywhere from, say, July 25, to maybe August 8, somewhere in that period. And this year, it's good, we're on that late side of that spectrum. Okay, so as far as the maturity and the ripening of the grapes, what type of weather impacts it is it excessive heat, excessive moisture, or frost, like what slows down the ripening, or what speeds up the ripening. Right. So there's this kind of Goldilocks temperatures band, say, from about 70 to about 85 degrees Fahrenheit. And so, in, so the more hours of the day that you spend in that little window of temperature, typically, the higher the color development is going to be, it takes about two weeks from the onset of rays on for all the grapes to turn from green to red. And if we have a nice moderate temperature window, get it doesn't matter if you know the daily high might be 90 or 95, or even 100, as long as you have plenty of hours, daytime hours in that 770-to-85-degreeFahrenheit window. So, we've gone back and looked at our records over the years. And then when we have a period of that two-week period of arrays on where they're turning from green to red, if we have a higher number of hours in that in that nice temperate zone of temperature, we see an explosion of color development in the grapes and in the wines that we produce two months later. Okay, so you said it was hotter this year in Paso or was it warmer? colder? It's colder. In fact, it's colder. In Paso and again, most of the wine growing regions in California are actually colder in 2023 than normal. Wow, that's so interesting. Yeah, it really is. And again, that's where that term climate changes is a better descriptor than global warming. Because is this hot it is, as it is, I mean, the glaciers are melting, they're setting regular heat temperatures, wildfires in Canada and the Rockies, get that general heat in, you know, the interior of the United States is actually can pull in colder air off the Pacific and, you know, onto the, you know, onto the landmass along the California coastline that maybe 20 or 35 Miles strip from the Pacific Ocean all the way from Santa Barbara to Mendocino. Jacy Topps 13:43 And now a word from our sponsor, spend a weekend exploring some unfamiliar grape stomping grounds. Located just minutes west of Portland, in Oregon's famed Willamette Valley experience and exceptional intimate world of wine, and to Walton Valley. uncover more than 30 World Class wineries without the crowds. Savor dozens of different varieties, all locally grown and produced in the Pacific Northwest. Explore Tualatin Valley at Tualatin Valley tual@invalley.org. Jacy Topps 14:26 I know that winemakers basically harvest grapes for like a white grape are harvested earlier for the lighter wines and the red grapes are harvested a little later. Is there a more significant fluctuation and harvest times because of climate change because of the colder weather this year? Steve Peck 14:51 Yeah, we're not growing our white grapes in the same region that we grow our red grapes. So, you're getting we you know we are growing Chardonnay. And Samuel Blanc in the cool climate of Monterey to begin with. So, our harvest for those grapes is roughly around the same time that we're ripening Cabernet in Paso Robles in that warmer region. That said, you know, the climate change effect is real, we fully believe in it. In some instances, in 2022, for example, we had record setting temperatures the first week of September, with temperatures reaching an unprecedented 105, even 110 degrees in some parts of our vineyards in Monterey. In that case, you would think that the grapes would just ripen really fast, but it doesn't actually work that way, the leaves on a grape vine or pretty much any plant, you know, you have that sort of shiny side that's facing the sun. And then the backside of the leaf is kind of this dole fuzzy side and on that backside or they're called stonemasons or stomata. So essentially like sweat pores, and when it gets 105 degrees, those pores close down and the vines just hibernate. And so we actually see a pause in our ripening development when we see Temperatures north of 100 degrees and the vines just kind of like going locked down. They stopped photosynthesizing, and they kind of go into a survival mode. So it really is interesting, you would think that hot weather would just propel things to ripeness, but it doesn't actually work that way. Again, you're outside of that you don't have enough hours in that really sweet spot Goldilocks area between 70 and 85 degrees and the vines actually kind of or not that productive in hot weather. That is so fascinating. Yeah, it's not intuitive. It's not an intuitive science. Yeah. And so you said you have acres planted in different regions throughout California. Is that correct? Right, with 3000 acres of red grapes in Paso Robles de la are also has about 1000 acres that that we own and farm in the Monterey royal Seiko region, and then little over 30 acres up on Pratt Avenue in St. Alena Napa Valley. Jacy Topps 17:26 So I'm interested to know about the Napa Valley Acres because you know, Napa had a lot of snow Napa and Sonoma had a lot of snow this winter. That's right. Yeah. Did that. No, I mean, like, you had a lot more than New York City. I'm here in New York City. It was insane. Did that impact the vineyards at all? Steve Peck 17:52 It you know, it's during the dormant season. So, you know, it makes for nice photojournalism. But I, you know, the visor, you know, they're tucked away nicely for their winter hibernation. And so even when we do get an anomaly like snow, in the vineyards, it really doesn't upset the applecart as long as the vines are dormant. So, but it is beautiful to see. Jacy Topps 18:19 So you said that you were harvesting a little later this year? How much later Do you are you going to be harvesting Steve Peck 18:28 We're short of forecasting that we will finish harvest 10th of November were last year, we were done by October 20. So do the math on that, that's 20 days or so different three weeks, three weeks different. That said, we haven't picked a single grape. So, we said Mike Tyson said everybody's got a plan until they get punched in the face. But, you know, we're, we're, you know, we always live in hope that this is going to be the best image ever. Nothing's happened so far and 2023 would prevent that. But, you know, again, you know, ranking you know, if it ends up being a wet October or we have a frost come through or, you know, some heat waves Steve Peck 19:18 we'll have to adapt our plan and really work our magic in the winery to you know, take average quality grapes, you know, and make the best of it rather than, you know, some of those, some of the great vintages like 2021 We had a great string of vintages in 2012 2013 2014, where you know, the wines were just made in the vineyard they were just beautiful all the way through their life where you know we'd have other more difficult than it is 22 would be one of those where we talked about it being the winemakers vintage. So it's really at that point, you know, it's up to the winemaker to use their finesse their blending skills to to you really adapt the wine style to really come up with something that people will enjoy? Jacy Topps 20:06 Yeah, that was definitely my next question. If you have to pick, you know, earlier or later, or when you do pick, it's not it's not the ultimate maturity level that you needed. How has that impacted on the fermentation process? Is it more sugar less acidity? Or vice versa? Steve Peck 20:28 Yeah, well, the first thing we'll do is, you know, every vineyard is not just entirely uniform. So if we've got a vineyard that's got, you know, some little hills and valleys, you know, brand like J Lohr, or we're gonna send our team in there, to pick out the hillside separately, and let the little valley the fruit in the valley that that's not heat stressed, you know, have the time on the vine to completely reach ideal maturity. The fancy word for that is called a differential harvest. So that's definitely early in our playbook. But you're right, as far as what arrives at the winery, fruit that's been exposed to too much heat, we'll see higher alcohols and the wines lower acidity, the wines are actually quite lovely in that in that first six months in the winery, but they don't always have the freshness or the structure to to really be amiable. So we, again, adapt, you know, one of the things you might do if the entire vintage was affected that way, you might say, Okay, well, maybe 18 months is our normal time and barrel, we're going to do 14 months instead, get these wines, you know, out of barrels and into the bottle to preserve some freshness, that would be a standard playbook for us for a hot hot vintage. Okay, so what is Jay Lord doing in the vineyards to mitigate or adapt to climate change? A couple of things. rootstock selection is a big thing, where you have some rootstocks that are more drought tolerant than others, you only get to make that decision once, right? It's what you know, you know, that's a planting decision. We've also gone to adapt it a number of our vineyards where, you know, you can picture, you know, a row of vines, and there's a little irrigation hose that runs along the bottom of the stakes there. And you'd have a little water drip or at each vine, we've kind of gone to where we actually will have, in most cases, two hoses. So again, if the fruit up on the hillside in that row needs water, we can just water those vines, that that needs water and not the entire row. So, let's say you know, some of the vines are down kind of, on lower ground, heavier soil, they're, they're good, we don't need to water every vine in that row. So that's, that's one example. We've got another one where, you know, the grapes tend to grow upright naturally. But there's typically a cross arm and wires that trellising that'll hold the, you know, hold those shoots in that upward position, we've kind of gone to these ones, where they're about two foot long, projecting to the south side of the vine row, and maybe only six inches to the north side. So, it almost acts like a brim of a baseball hat, to where we've kind of tilted the grapevine architecture to kind of create a little bit more shade on the, say, the sunny side of the vine, the south facing side of the vine, just like you know, my house, for sure. I mean, I've got you know, I've got the porch on this on the south side of the house, and I've got the one on the north side, you know, on a hot afternoon, you know, my family and I we sit out on the shady side of the house, right? We don't you know, we're not sitting out there in the blazing sun. So, but and so we've kind of adapted the, the trellis architecture a little bit to sort of address that. Jacy Topps 23:55 Okay, so pretty much every winery has its own style, and I know Jay Laura has its own style. Do you think climate change will ultimately affect your style of winemaking? Are you thinking about maybe 1015 20 years down the road? Would you adapt a new style of winemaking, a new J. Lohr style? Steve Peck 24:17 Well, we are certainly open to you know, looking at other varieties that can, you know, sort of support our brand. Cabernet francs and example you know, the flavor profiles a lot like Cabernet Sauvignon. But it is we you know, we actually some varieties demand more water than others just naturally. We talk about Seraj for example, from the Rhone Valley. We talked about that being kind of the Hummer of great fights. In other words, it's the gas guzzler. Serato goes through it just plows through water and Cabernet Franc we refer to it as the Prius you know mean it's really economical. And we've you know, so we've actually slowly expanded our Cabernet Franc plantings and are finding more utility for it, the fruit ends up getting blended into our Cabernet Sauvignon program at or low program in, you know, kind of 5% quantities. But we do value our experience with growing that variety and would lean into that if you know, the climate change does continue. And we've got experience with Cabernet Franc and we know that it's going to allow us to, you know, save water, it's not going to demand as much irrigation in the vineyard and it's going to be a little bit more heat tolerant to these, you know, hotter temperatures that we see in the vineyards. But again, this coastal strip, where pastorals lie, it's, it may not play out to actually get hotter here, it may actually play out that we get cooler again, because of that draft that the interior of the United States has created for us to pull yet more cold air off the Pacific Ocean. So, it's not entirely is sort of intuitive as you might think. Jacy Topps 26:12 Yeah. Steve, I have one more question for you. Uh huh. When all the grapes are pressed, and everything's in the tank, fermenting and harvest season is over. And you it's been a success. What's in your glass? What are you drinking? Steve Peck 26:29 Well, I already kind of tip my hat to my excitement around Cabernet Franc. You know, we also grow a few Rhone varieties here at J lore that can be really refreshing. We have a new kind of luxury iconic release called JLo or signature Cabernet Sauvignon. So if I really feel like pampering myself and allowing myself to just feel good about all the hard work, I've put in, like, you know, in the situation you describe, you know, kind of fought the fight of harvest. I've, you know, I've been up early and been on that hyper vigilant watch of our crop in our winemaking, and I really want to reward myself. That's the bottle I'm going to pull out is the jail or signature Cabernet. Yeah, and I know that you guys deserve it. All the hard work. Jacy Topps 27:22 Yeah, thank you so much for joining us. It's been such a pleasure talking to you. It was a delight. Thank you. I wish you a very happy and healthy harvest season. Steve Peck 27:33 Okay, and thank you, Jacy and I really appreciate the opportunity again to talk with you. Jacy Topps 27:44 The story of climate change is not just one of elevated temperatures, there's smoke taint, droughts, frost, flooding, hailstorms and excessive rainfall. They are all impacting the wine vineyards. Climate change is very real, and it's only accelerating. Sure. Advances in technology and better scientific understanding of how grapes are grown, are certainly helping winemakers adapt to climate change. But ultimately, it's on all of us to help mitigate it. What are your thoughts? If you like today's episode, we love to read your reviews and hear what you think. You can email us your comments and questions at podcasts @ wine enthusiast.net. And hey, why not tell your wine loving friends to check us out to remember, you can subscribe to this podcast on Apple, Google, Spotify and anywhere else you listen to podcasts. You can also go to wine enthusiast.com backslash podcast. For more episodes and transcripts. I'm Jacy Topps. Thanks for listening.